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Post by jimmydickens on Apr 7, 2017 21:17:44 GMT -5
www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/03/31/detroit-red-wings-anthony-mantha-injury-skilled-players-fighting/99863854/This is just stupid. The greatest era of detroit theblast 30 years, skill players fought a lot. Shanahan fought. Defense guys fought. Lapointe. Up and down the lineup. Mantha has to fight because Ken Holland has placed absolutely zero value on a well rounded lineup with actually tough players. There is nobody who will standup for teammates on the lineup. Jonathan Ericsson: good, effective fighter. People don't want to fight him. He fights twice every three years, does nothing to keep flies off. Brendan Smith got injuries from fights Ericsson should have taken. Abdelkader: he's never been a tough guy. The culture of the team has to change when they would rather bitch to the refs than stand up for themselves. That was always odd in a sport that condones standing up for yourself and teammates, and also since the era of discipline over everything (where tough guys would actually take care of the problem opponent in addition to your power play goal) is long dead. You don't build mental toughness by bitching st refs. You do it with the confidence that not only can you score on them, but you, or a teammate, will be going after him later. They haven't had that guy on the team until mantha got in the lineup and it's fucking beautiful. Everyone on this team should be fighting and diving into scrums
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Post by PierreC on Apr 8, 2017 1:16:26 GMT -5
We have never seen anything like this in Detroit since Konstantinov got injured. I don't expect this line-up to become tough before another decade is done...
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Post by powayslugger on Apr 8, 2017 10:56:43 GMT -5
What will happen with Ericsson? Will the wings end up buying him out?
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Post by jimmydickens on Apr 8, 2017 12:57:27 GMT -5
You don't actually know how Los Vegas will handle the expansion draft. They could just pick the best available players and then hope for a good free agency. The only thing we know for sure about the draft is that unless teams choose otherwise, you can't pick anybody with just a season or two experience. Ericsson very well could be taken in the expansion draft by an owner looking at hitting the cap floor. The only way I see a buyout is if Ken Holland gets some guaranteed negotiating rights to Shattenkirk, in order to clear room cuz Shattenkirk will cost more than Green we know
It really is going to take a lot more than mantha to fix toughness on the team. But it's a start. You know with him out though, Abdelkader is going to slide back into a do nothing realm.
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Post by newfiewing on Apr 8, 2017 15:44:02 GMT -5
The lack of grit, the lack of RH shooters, etc, some size AND grit up front....all of the ingredients that go into a balanced lineup....missing pieces that could fairly easily be rectified via the draft and a couple of relatively low key trades.
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Post by number13 on Apr 8, 2017 21:26:49 GMT -5
We need to put more weight on the size of the heats of these players and not just the physical size. An example DK, big man...soft as shit.
I want players that like the legal violence of the game just as much as the beauty and grace of the game. Guys that can chip in offensively and not back down from hits or avoid difficult areas of the ice and be the first to drop the mitts whee someone fucks with a teammate.
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Post by jimmydickens on Apr 10, 2017 10:22:17 GMT -5
Here's a somewhat similar - adjacent issue: the obsession with changing a players game from the reason he got drafted in the first place.
I won't include Sheahan in this thought since he was drafted out of high school and the only reason he went pro early is that Notre Adams stunk.
The paradigm for Detroit for over a generation has been these guys have to play defense. Two Way game at the expense of stats because Yzerman did it for Bowman. Here's something that coaches seem to have forgotten from Lewis to Babcock to Blashill's right now: how many years experience did Yzerman already have before Bowman made that choice for him?
It stands to reason that you draft somebody like Smith to rush the puck, but you don't play him because he does just that. Jurco drafted for slick skills, doesn't play because they think he should be a grinder and doesn't score as a grinder. We have seen this over and over as one prospect after another gets benched into oblivion with hardly any NHL experience to meet the impossible Yzerman standard, while at the same time, not scoring the same rate as a player who is just playing the game. Is this going to start changing?
When it became clear the season was lost after Christmas, Blashill's appeared to start taking prospect players out of these defense heavy 2 Way positions and put them in opportunities to show skill. And Athanasiou quickly started scoring goals. Mantha scored goals. Tatar started scoring again and Larkin ultimately got to 17 goals.
When you already have adequate, 2 way minded personnel from Zetterberg, Abdelkader, Glendenning, Helm, Miller, and Nielsen in the lineup, it doesn't make sense to see a coach try to make a young, fast, skilled guy play the way these guys who have been around for a while longer. Glendenning is only in the NHL because he committed himself as a defense specialist. And I think if Blashill made that change sooner, you maybe still lose the season but don't lose as often. Trusting your personnel would go a long way to restoring the mental toughness issue.
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Post by vpalmer on Apr 10, 2017 11:39:15 GMT -5
What will happen with Ericsson? Will the wings end up buying him out? I will call it a small victory if he is not protected:) |
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Post by chris on Apr 10, 2017 19:11:08 GMT -5
Here's a somewhat similar - adjacent issue: the obsession with changing a players game from the reason he got drafted in the first place. BINGO BANGO ! Brent, I didn't quote the entire post but that was excellent ! |
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Post by vpalmer on Apr 11, 2017 16:48:46 GMT -5
Tomas Tatar will have shoulder surgery on Thursday.
He is projected to need four-to-six months of rehab, according to GM Ken Holland. Tatar indicated he'd be ready for start of season.
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Post by number13 on Apr 12, 2017 15:08:41 GMT -5
Man, this not making the playoffs is really starting to sink in and it is VERY strange feeling. Usually once I know our opponent I spend time to scout and research them as well as read all the Freep/DetNews/Mlive/Yahoo/ESPN/TSN coverage and this is the first time in 26 years that I haven't did any of that...usually my wife sees little of me in the evenings/night from Mid April to June (or sooner when we're ousted). I'l still be watching them but no big deal if I miss a game as I have no stake in the outcomes.
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Post by newfiewing on Apr 13, 2017 20:51:50 GMT -5
Shawn, it's definitely a weird feeling but what makes it even worse is the realization that next season will see the same tired excuse for a coach that we now have in Blashill. That guy could not inspire his team to break out of a paper bag and we are expected to just accept the crap excuses from him and KH for another year.
I really felt that KH was going to fire him last season after the 20 game mark if the team was struggling.....so I waited....and waited....and waited.....and waited some more. By New Year's Day, I knew it was a forlorn hope and I knew then that this team was heading for an early end to the season as soon as the regular schedule was done. This duo are leading our team into the abyss and I see no chance for improvement until they are both gone. I used to have a lot of faith in KH but it has eroded big time over the past couple of years.
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Post by number13 on Apr 14, 2017 9:12:48 GMT -5
Unfortunately Newf I have the same feelings of next season. Maybe we stink for another year and KH GM contract won't be renewed and we'll get someone who can adapt to todays NHL. Kenny Holland was a great GM but unfortunately he seems to have lost touch with modern reality... its not 2002 any more.
I know one thing...I am not liking what I'm hearing from Kenny Holland on the future of this team...basically continue on as is, suck to stockpile draft picks maybe make a trade or FA signing (continue to tweak around the edges and demand more from players incapable of delivering). To me lowering the bar to merely be 1 of 16 of 30 parity teams is not a good thing. Wining your division, conference, league and cup should be primary focal points.
What I also am concerned about is Chris Illitch...I don't think he has the same feelings of the Red Wings as his father had and is more business oriented. Profitability over winning. Detroit is a perfect sports town for that as paying customers are in seats to watch mediocrity in action. Why shoot for excellence when you can spend a lot less and earn similar profits year over year?
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Post by PierreC on Apr 14, 2017 15:04:27 GMT -5
let's wait.
Let's give KH the ultimate chance, starting now and lasting a couple of months.
With what i read from him i believe we might see some moves, very shortly, like before july first or around.
If Nothing much happens from the first week of october then we shall resume our bashing KH !
There is no way we start next season with this group of defense....no way.
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Post by number13 on Apr 15, 2017 5:54:12 GMT -5
I think what he does after the finals, before, during and after the draft are keys. It should be a good indicator on his train of thought going forward. As I said when Blashill wasn't fired...I'm not happy about that but I'm not wishing ill will on my team just because I don't like the coach. If we have a bad start of the first 10 games get ready for the bashing as it will start. At the 20 game mark if we're something like 8-8-4 that is how we'll finish season if we remain with Jeff Blashill and current coaching staff.
I hoping and praying for Kenny Holland to show some balls and backbone too....keeping fingers crossed but have a feeling"Komplacent Kenny" has lost touch with todays game and how to go about building a winning team in the current landscape of the NHL.
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